Scott Rattigan (00:02.014)
Welcome back to the Junto. This is Scott Rattigan, your host, and I'm the founder of Functional Lawyer. And the Junto is a club where people can gather to learn from experts and peers in the field of functional medicine and entrepreneurship. We're here to lift each other up, learn from each other when it comes to anything from mindset, which I believe is the most important part of being an entrepreneur and business leader, and everything to practical tools, tips, technology.
and software you might be using to optimize yourself and your patient's experience and getting them better. And that's what we're all here for. So let's jump into the Junto. This is a great one. Today we have Dr. Brandon Marcello, PhD, an expert in human performance optimization. He works with Department of Defense, professional athletes and plenty more. So let's get right into it. We're very excited to welcome Brandon Marcello, PhD. He's got over 25 years of experience in the human performance enhancement industry. Sounds fancy.
As a chief innovation officer for JAG Consulting, he drives forward thinking, cutting edge strategies across a variety of human performance portfolios. He has extensive involvement in both applied and research worlds and currently serves as the principal investigator for the U .S. Army Combat Capabilities Development Command Centers, optimizing the human weapons system effort. This effort comes on the heels of supporting other human performance projects for the U .S. Department of Defense, Nevada National Security Site, and the Close Combat Lethality.
Task Force, welcome Brandon Marcello. Thanks, Scott. Appreciate it. Nice to be here. That is a lot of defense speak. It kind of sounds like you're in an episode of a CIA thriller or an episode of the TV show 24. What does all that mean, and how did you get into this world? Well, if only it was that exciting, as it sounds. But interesting fact, truth be told, then you can have a conversation offline, because since you know my wife.
Her parents were former CIA. So I can have a conversation with her about that another time. That's a little bit more exciting than my world. But to get into - So Brandon's wife is a chiropractor. He specializes also in human performance, just for everyone listening. So how'd you get into it? No, I got into the field through really just, I really enjoyed learning about physiology and I really learned about enjoying about exercise, physiology, and really what are the responses that the body -
Scott Rattigan (02:21.88)
stimulus and response type of effect that occurs. And that led me into, well, okay, I didn't really like, you know, cardiac rehab, which was one way I could go with the time. I didn't like dealing with corporate wellness because I was like, that doesn't sound interesting. So I'm like, is there a door number three? And I found that working with athletes.
So I started really my career trying to enhance the performance of professional athletes and Olympic athletes. So getting them ready for the NFL or getting them ready for major league baseball or getting them ready for the Olympics. But realizing that really is more to performance and just strength and conditioning and injury prevention and those types of things. So that's where I kind of started to branch out into all of these other elements, if you will, that contribute.
to the optimization and the enhancement of the human system.
That's amazing. And so you have a PhD and that was you said earlier it was in the effects of overtraining. Yeah. Yeah. My dissertation was looking at overtraining, which I don't believe occurs. Funny enough. And then to look at maybe some interventional, you know, or countermeasures that you could deploy to kind of offset that. So, yeah, looking into seeing because you see it in sports, you see it in humans too, in regular people. Right. Like we get run down.
what does that look like? And then potentially, are there any countermeasures that you could deploy that might offset that? Yeah, excellent. So you go into the Department of Defense kind of pockets and help optimize the human weapons system, which is effectively just human performance, right? And I know from earlier conversations that we use a lot of data gathering tools in order to do that. So kind of tell me, what are you really looking for?
Scott Rattigan (04:14.574)
And how does that inform your decisions on optimizing a human and how they can perform? Yeah. So, you know, essentially the military for years have kind of taken the approach that to make a better human weapon system, right? You give them better equipment, give them a better gun, give them a better plane, give them a better helmet, right? It's like saying, you know, Scott, I'm going to make you a really good baseball player by giving you a really good glove.
Right. And, you know, yes, equipment does help, but at the end of the day, it's not everything. So in the world of almost like NASCAR of war, right. When everybody has similar weapon systems, similar aircraft vehicles, et cetera, really the end of the day, what's going to make the make or break, you know, who wins and who loses is the human and how these humans can make the best decisions in the shortest period of time.
So currently one of our efforts, the OHWS, or Optimizing the Human Weapon System effort, what we're doing is deploying these wearable technologies. And they're nothing unique, right? It's just consumer off -the -shelf wearable technologies that you and I would wear, or anybody would wear. And then what we're trying to do is, on the individual level, how can we inform them of their behaviors, habits, and choices, so they can kind of look at their own data and say, wow, you know, this is what happens to my nighttime physiology when I get four hours of sleep.
Or this is what happens to my nighttime physiology when I get eight hours of sleep. And this is what happens if I stay up late with friends and have three beer, right? Versus one beer. So they can really kind of understand the consequences, positive and negative, so their behaviors have some choices. And that's the individual level. At the level of human health performance and the medical side of the house, they will get individual flags that they will set.
as to when maybe they need to have an intervention with somebody. So somebody is having, say, I'm just going to make this up, lack of sleep for like four or five days, reporting high stress levels on their daily questionnaire. That may flag to the medical side of the house. And somebody might just have a conversation with them. How are you feeling? How are doing? I've noticed this. Or, hey, we saw that your temperature level has spiked over the last two nights. Respiration rate is up.
Scott Rattigan (06:40.366)
Granted, they're not diagnostic, but it can start a conversation. So then maybe a medical practitioner could check in. And all this came out of COVID. Are there any early warning detection systems that we can come up with from COVID? And now we're looking at it to inform the individual, the medical side of the house, the training side of the house, and also command. While command doesn't see individual data, they can see aggregate data. And now they can make.
potentially changes to how they train our warfighters because all that's kind of based upon what they've always done, right? And based upon assumptions. And if we can turn these assumptions into facts, or if we can turn these assumptions and say that we were wrong, then that puts us in a better position to train our warfighters so that the type of response they need is in parallel with the stimulus that they're providing. That's amazing.
And so you touched on a couple of things that I think will be most relevant to our audience of primarily functional medicine entrepreneurs who do a lot of the same things that you're talking about, try to optimize lifestyle. Some of them are heavy into wearables and other types of technology that give feedback from a remote monitoring perspective, but many don't. And so you touched on the individual level. What have you found? Because, you know, soldiers in a
in a unit that is supportive and kind of is just giving them whatever they need is different than somebody trying to motivate a patient to make changes in their lifestyle when maybe not all the conditions are optimal to do so, right? They don't have three meals a day being cooked for them or maybe somebody in their home is not as supportive or maybe it's just them and they're trying to manage three kids or in a job and all of that. So what would you?
What would you say is probably one of the better things that would motivate an individual to adopt, make, and really sustain these types of changes? Yeah, I think the big thing is, one, is I think these wearable technologies, one, allow conversations with practitioners, and they're conversation starters. There are some people in the medical profession, you've probably come across them, that are like, well, these things aren't diagnostic. We know that.
Scott Rattigan (09:03.694)
They're not diagnostic. They're not intended to be diagnostic. They're consumer off the shelf wearable devices that are not going to go through FDA approval. Fine. But they do provide a basis of people being interested and curious about their health. And if they're wearing them, that means they probably want to do some sort of investing in themselves to get better. Right. And I think that's a win. Right. And then all of a sudden it's like, okay, now I'm seeing these things, whatever it might be. Hey, I noticed I wake up a lot during the night.
That's a great conversation starter with my practitioner, right? Whoever it is to now open the door and say, is there anything I can do about this? Because I think one of the things that people believe or perceive is that these things are very hard to do and they're very unattainable. You know, you and I were talking about sleep the other day and you know, everybody knows this magic number of eight, which is debatable, right? But when people say, yeah, I'm never going to get hours of sleep. This is not how I.
You know, I can't do that with my schedule. That can be very off putting. But if you can say, is there a way that you in the six hours of sleep, five hours of sleep, how can we get you the best five hours of sleep possible? So are there strategies that I can give you that will help you sleep better through those five hours? So at least a restful five hours and not a fragmented five hours or, you know, something like that.
So then all of a sudden it's like you're truly meeting the patient where they are. It may not be where you want them to be, but you're pushing them down that road of where they can go. Right. And I think that's kind of the important thing is to understand that we're all human, right? Every human is different. And I think understanding those differences and those unique circumstances allows us to meet people where they are and then prescribe countermeasures. Is that a realistic?
and reachable and attainable. And if they're that, then we can stack those habits and things are likely to stick better. Yeah, I'm glad to use the phrase meet people where they are, because we use in functional medicine, a lot of people like to use the word personalized care, because, you know, they go to a maybe a conventional doc or somebody who just doesn't have this sort of knowledge. And they're like, yeah, try to sleep more, get more, get eight hours of sleep without any kind of practical tools on how to do so. Or,
Scott Rattigan (11:32.13)
recognizing that it may not always be possible if they have kind of overnight shifts in the ER or if they are maybe married to a firefighter or their patient's a firefighter or somebody else that just kind of has irregular cycles of sleep and wake. So what are maybe some of the ways that we could optimize our sleep for people juggling family and work and everything else and trying to eat healthy and do all this stuff? Like...
I would like to know personally, but kind of what are some of the tools that either our listeners can use or pass along to their patients? Yeah, so the first thing is we like to identify what are their obstacles, right? Like the common barriers to sleep, right, are noise, right? Light, pain, temperature, and position. Like those are the five, right? So position meaning, you know, I...
I don't sleep on a bed, I sleep in a recliner, right? Something like that. Or, you know, I travel a lot, so I have to sleep on planes, right? Like something like that would be position. Noise is pretty simple. The thing about noise, which I always find interesting, is sometimes people say, well, nothing ever noisy wakes me up in the middle of the night. But we've had instances where we have deployed wearable technology. And this is like in an athletic population. We had an athlete, a major league baseball player.
Every Thursday, they come into the clubhouse dragging, like really tired and sleepy and groggy. And this person did everything. No blue light, did all the check boxes that everybody would do. But for some reason, Thursday mornings were a little bit more difficult for this individual. And we saw that there was this sleep disruption that took place at about five in the morning. Um, it wasn't perceivable to him, right?
because one of two things, either it wasn't loud enough to wake him up, it was just loud enough to disturb his sleep, or as we all know, side effect of sleep is retrograde amnesia, he may not have remembered waking up, right? Regardless, he had sleep disruption and come to find out that's when the garbage truck rolled through his neighborhood, right? So yeah, exactly. So it's one of those things where like, okay, well yeah, people will say and patients might say,
Scott Rattigan (13:52.302)
You know, I don't recall ever waking up like that. I just, I don't think so. Right. But it's like, well, let's try something. So maybe be a noise machine, right? Something as simple as that, you can go down to target and get for 20 bucks, right? Like a very easy win there. Like that's something the whole dark, you know, make something, make your room dark, make it comfortable, make it cool. Those types of things are always, you know, you're beneficial, but.
The big thing that I always recommend, whether it's an athlete, whether it's a warfighter, a soldier, whether it's an FBI agent or firefighter, like you said, like let's develop a routine, right? Everything in our world is built around routines. Even if you have five minutes, a five minute routine before you go to bed will help set you up for success. What you're doing is you're getting your body in a position to accept sleep. And that five minutes can be anything depending on who you are. Some people like to read.
I don't like to read. Well, then don't read, right? Some people like to just, you know, maybe meditate. That's fine. Maybe stretch. That's fine. Maybe draw, maybe write around, write down what your day's like tomorrow. Maybe what's on your mind, right? Personally, if you want, if I want to calm myself down and take myself into like the Zen state, I will watch Bob Ross, right? The Joy of Painting, right? And when I turn on Bob Ross, both my kids and you know, the girls, they come running in and they watch with me.
Right? There's just something serene around about him to me. Right? So whatever that routine is, you know, I'm going to spend two minutes writing down my thoughts. If it's a two minute routine, that's something and that's fine. Right? Maybe it's a hot shower every night. Uh, whatever that is, it could be just washing your face, right? Whatever that routine is for you, stick with it. And it's only, you know, five minutes at it. It's all it really has to be, um, to set yourself up for success.
Very easy. That's awesome. I personally like to listen to Dale Carnegie audiobooks. And that puts me out with eyes are closed, no blue lights. And it's helpful because the reader of the Dale Carnegie audiobooks has like an old timey deep voice that kind of lulls me out. So all right, that's amazing. The.
Scott Rattigan (16:16.558)
Just a routine, a simple routine and sounds dumb, but simple is usually the answer. Not doesn't sound dumb, sorry, but it sounds too easy to be true almost, right? And so that's an invaluable tip there. When do you ever find roadblocks when you go into an organization or when you're speaking with individuals about kind of excuses or reasons why they can't adopt changes to help?
you know, even if they're not going from eight to 10, it to go from maybe like a six to an eight. How do you deal with the human element of that? Because I know that's a big part of what you talk about a lot. Yeah. So typically I try to address any of these friction points right away. And I typically do that. It changes again. It changes on the audience because you have to meet the audience where they are or the individual where they are. Right.
And like if I go into a major league baseball team, I know that there are some people that have always done things the way they've done things, right? And that's just the way it's going to be, just for instance. And I will say, I understand that there are plenty of people out there who probably were really good baseball players that got crappy sleep and crappy nutrition. And they played really well and had a successful career. Some of those people are probably in this room right now.
But that those guys are outliers that can't be everybody in this room. Not everybody in this room can be an outlier. Not everybody can smoke three packs a day from the age of 13 and live to be 102. Those are outliers. Right. So, you know, when I address that and I call out and recognize that there are some people out there that are outliers, it's received well because I've admitted they're there.
And then what I typically have are coaches who say, you're that guy's, I'm the outlier. That was me. You guys need to get your reps made by it. Right. Um, when you bring forth the information that we'll hear, you know, humans obviously think we're really able to perform sleep deprived. Right. Like that's our thing. We think we perform well in a sleep deprived state and maybe bring out funny comments and you say like, you know, that's like going out and trying to practice driving drugs.
Scott Rattigan (18:43.31)
Right? Like I'm going to get drunk every night and I'm going to go out and drive and practice. Right? So you kind of bring a little bit of humor, a little bit of levity into it. Um, and they kind of just start to see that, well, maybe that's something I really can't do. Right? So the pushback is always going to be there, but that I think is we're also where the wearable devices come in because now they own it and they can see it themselves.
And people are funny, right? When it becomes their idea to address a problem, it's much more important than when somebody else's idea, right? So when they can look at that data and say, yeah, man, I knew this, but now I can see it. It's much harder to ignore when you have something that is tangible on a device, right? And says, hey, you're not sleeping enough.
Okay, yeah. And for those that aren't keen on wearables for whatever reason, whether it's the radiation or anything, I mean, I think coming out of that answer is just kind of track something. You can track it in a journal, whether it's your food journal or your sleep journal, or a mood journal, not a ring, but kind of just tracking so you can see. And I'm pretty guilty of not being aware of how food affects my body.
Whereas my wife, Linda, she eats something and she's aware or she took supplements or she can tell the difference. And I typically don't. So a journal is something that I should probably do more of so I can optimize my own health. So I'm just around for the kids. And so that's amazing in an environment where everybody there is motivated because they're either trying to make the roster if they're on the low end of things or they're trying to get their next.
contract if they're at the high end of things. What about people who are coming in, you know, maybe soldiers might be a good place where I've heard soldiers that in basic training filled up their camel back with soda instead of water. Like they have no idea sometimes, right? How do you get to them and start to convince them where the motivation may not always be in line with performance necessarily? Or if that question is,
Scott Rattigan (20:57.356)
Isn't applicable, let me know. No, it's very applicable and it's true because, right, like you're dealing with, you know, 18 to 21 year olds who don't understand or see the con, you know, you're a mortal at that age, right? So, you know, those things aren't important and you see it with athletes, right? Like when they're new and they're 18 to 21 year olds, they will do anything. They don't care. But then when they're trying to play one more year or two more years to your point, get the next contract.
All of a sudden, they will do anything you tell them because they want to play for one more year. So the big thing is this, is that people are people and they want three things, right? Food, shelter, and sense of belonging. That's all they want. So you kind of have to play to those things and play to those people and understand that, OK, these things might not be important to you now, but this is also where education comes into play. And what we've found with
the OHWS program is if we deploy wearable technology and we do not provide education compared to when we deploy wearable technology to a similar demographic and deploy education alongside of it, the compliance rates are totally lopsided. So those that receive education prior to...
super high compliance rate compared to those that did not receive education. It's super low, right? Because I think that's really what was the wearable technology. Yeah, just about the importance of sleep, right? You know, what do these numbers mean? What does HRV mean? What do these things mean for people that don't know and understand? You know, because they want two things. Actually, they only want one thing. What does this information do for me?
What do I get out of this? Right. And if you can provide that through the education of materials, right. Living life on your terms, it could be with somebody, you know, it could resonate with somebody performing at a higher level could be for somebody making the right decision in the shortest period of time might be somebody else, right. Get in the military speak, getting off the X faster. If you can determine that's not a good place to be and you can get off there faster. If you can move faster.
Scott Rattigan (23:17.39)
If you're stacking the odds in your favor of living longer, that can be a win as well. So all of these things come into play. It's very well recognized. I don't know what everybody I talk to is going through. I don't know what their experiences are and their histories are. And I think that's a unique thing about what you do with your world is a lot of people do get to have those personal interactions. And it's
It's more than just your generic type of, you know, primary care that's this conglomeration things down the road that like, just give you the company line. Hey, brand, your cholesterol is, you 220 cut back on fried foods and you know, exercise without even asking me what I eat or what I do for exercise. Right. So I think that's the other thing. I think there's an opportunity to meet, like you said, personalized.
understand the individual, understand who they are. And that goes a long way too, because when we can have one -on -one conversations with soldiers, people, it doesn't matter who they are, they're humans. When people think you're invested in them, it's the old saying, right? People don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. And I think that's where you guys are at a much better advantage than me going talking to like 150 people.
Right. I mean, what you're saying is very exciting to me because, you know, this is in functional medicine, a lot of it is soft skills, like, you know, patients history, getting their emotions. And what we've been working on with my wife, Linda, is this, the software Reveille IDX that will help to track that data over time, symptoms between appointments and trend lines and lab results as they go over time, which maybe physicians or providers,
don't necessarily think they might need, but it's also a way for a patient to see the difference. Because sometimes what Linda will tell me is that someone will come into her and have a million complaints. And then eight months later, reduce those all the way down to, if I started with a million, maybe 200 ,000 complaints, but then still be complaining. And so it's nice to be able to show the data, like, well, you were here, and now we're here. I know it's not perfect.
Scott Rattigan (25:42.414)
but look at how far we've come so far. And that's a lot of what we're doing along with education, personalized education through Reveille ADX. So that's exciting to know that data plus education will even convince some of the skeptics out there as well. And it just kind of facilitate the conversation. The providers know what they know more than any kind of software will tell them, but it helps translate that into actionable steps for.
for patients, because when you say in your intro, there's a lot of defense speak in there. And I speak it a little bit as a former member of the Department of Defense. But that's a gobbledygook to a lot of our listeners. So being able to translate functional medicine jargon to a civilian, in this case, a patient, is tough to do. And that's amazing. So from here, what else would you have us know from a standpoint of,
you know, taking somebody from an eight to a 10 or from a five to an eight, you know, how, what are some of the lowest hanging fruit that make the biggest change in their lives? And, you know, with you and the data in the defense world, I imagine it'll track very closely with what some of our providers are already doing, or maybe they'll pick up a nugget here too. Yeah, you know, and that's, that's, that's the important thing. I think, you know, sometimes podcasts are great because they give new insights.
and they provoke thought. And sometimes they're great because it just confirms what we're already doing. And that's very helpful too that I find. So and everybody loves confirmation bias, right? So but I, you know, I think the thing to consider is something that you and I were speaking about yesterday. And that is that, you know, when I, I look at human performance, I look at it through there are four pillars. There is the physical domain, there's a cognitive domain, there's a social domain and an emotional domain.
And all four of those domains are connected and they're intertwined and they all influence one another. Right. One is not more important than the other. There might be a time when one might be more important than the other, but there is never a time when one is always more important than the other. There's always an ebb and flow in these desired states of performance. So as you know, as we know, you know, how we, how we feel cognitively can impact our physical abilities. Right. Yeah. I don't feel like working out today.
Scott Rattigan (28:06.222)
I don't feel like hanging out with somebody. So that's a social domain, right? Or I'm tired. I'm very, you know, now I'm irritable, right? So that affects my emotional domain. So considering all of those, I think is the most important thing. Um, we, sometimes we get very myopic with our views of things, depending on our area of expertise, right? Um, like a nutritionist might say, you know, Brandon, I, you shouldn't eat, you know, pizza is probably not the healthiest thing for you. All right. But.
To me, we do pizza Friday, right, in our family. And the reason I do it, my sister does it, is because my parents did it, right? And that's just something we've always done. So from that standpoint, sure, physically we might take a hit because it may not be the healthiest food on the planet, but we might get a net gain performance -wise because we've boosted our cognitive, our social, and our emotional domains, which far gave...
you know gave me a more positive than that negative of the physical and I would argue that fiscal probably didn't take much of a hit because I was. No, commonly socially and emotionally elevated so it's about considering all of those things is about considering whether individuals and introvert extrovert right considering who they are considering their ethnic background right. I'm an example I use is when I was doing something with the Atlanta Braves.
They're like, yeah, we're trying to provide better, healthier food options for our players. And I go into the locker room or into their little cooler and they have like, yeah, we put in Greek yogurt in there and nobody touches it. Nobody wants to eat healthy. And I said, okay, most of the players on that particular team, about 80 % of them were from Latin America.
Latin Americans consume anywhere between 75 to 85 % of the drinkable yogurt in the United States. Far different from thick Greek yogurt, right? What flavors do they like? They like mango, pineapple, key lime, like those types of things, not black cherry that they had in there as well. So they had two things going against them. I appreciate they were trying to think healthy.
Scott Rattigan (30:25.838)
but they didn't consider their demographic and find that, well, we could find it probably a pretty good drinkable yogurt with a pretty good flavor profile. And then I think that would solve the problem. So it's really not that the guys don't want to consume healthy food. It's that we're just not providing them something that they like, right? That is also healthy. So, you know, like to me, that is the low hanging fruit is to identify the population.
Right, who are we dealing with?
Yeah, and so from that answer, I got a lot of things that I think totally apply to some of the providers here as well. One is kind of not being too strict or having your patients kind of not be too strict on themselves or hard on themselves when they can follow the recommended diet or plan 90 % of the time. And then, you know, maybe they can fall off once in a while and then get right back on it, right? But then track how they felt after they didn't do it, going back to earlier. And then the social emotional connections as well.
I mean, a lot of people talk about blue zones around the world, and one of the biggest contributors there is community or social interactions as well. So even if you're out, and we spoke about this yesterday, even if you're out at a social gathering and people are eating kind of not as healthy or that the options are limited for you, it might be okay to indulge in order to get that sense of belonging, not to fall susceptible to negative peer pressure, but don't be too hard on yourself if...
If that because that will also sustain or extend your life, the community aspect as well. And then another thing I pulled out was finding meeting people where they are again. But on the nitty gritty details, like you were talking with yogurt is a great place where a health coach might be able to supplement a licensed provider with, hey, this is the diet I want you to eat. But then the health coach can go help them hold their hand to make those behavioral changes at a granular. What's in your fridge level as well?
Scott Rattigan (32:26.382)
And then, you know, what Linda, my wife, did at her practice, and it's kind of what we, you know, try to encourage others to do is to incorporate some sort of mental health therapist as well, if not in your practice, but refer out to, which, you know, goes back to your cognitive, emotional, two pillars there as well. So, you know, you know, it may seem like Brandon may not be exactly on par for our audience. I think it's all right. Exactly the same thing we're doing, but to pull it out and.
and kind of give those concrete kind of connections there to what you said is, I'm encouraged because it seems like what the functional medicine community is doing and lots of people are doing what I just said is right in line with what the cutting edge military experts or consultants are teaching, advocating and recommended to what some people call the greatest fighting force in history. So.
Thank you Brandon for being here. Is there anything else you'd want to have us know or where can people find you if they want to learn more about you or the company you work for? Yeah, I mean, the company I work for is JAG Consulting. We have a website. It's jaghp .com. I'm on LinkedIn. That's pretty much, I don't have a big footprint. Not really a need to have a big footprint. I do post randomly on Twitter, X, excuse me, X on occasion. But...
That's, you know, that's B Marcello 13. But again, we pretty much keep a low profile. Yeah, he's not here to sell you anything and we'll put all that stuff down in the show notes or below this video on YouTube. So give us a subscribe. Thank you to Dr. Brandon Marcello, another expert from outside our world that comes in so we can all kind of learn or pick up something as well or just get curious. So thanks again for being here Brandon.
My pleasure. Thanks for having me. Special thanks to Brandon Marcelo for joining us in the Junto this week. For all the resources we talked about, or for more on the Junto and other episodes, go to functionallawyer.com/junto. And this will be the most recent episode there. It's episode number three, Brandon Marcello. Thank you for joining us in the Junto. Please subscribe if you like this or send it to a friend who might benefit as well. And until next time, I'm Scott Rattigan. We'll see you later.
